Poll - Is Jeff Bzdelik a good coaching fit for Wake Forest?
by WakeJake on Apr 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT
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I covered most of my points in the last article
People only don’t like Bzdelik because they thought we were going to get Stevens/Smith/Donovan, etc (all of which were longshots). What did everyone complain about Dino? His offensive strategy. What is Bzdelik known for? Offensive strategy. Everyone complains that he is bringing a slowdown Princeton offense to a team of uptempo players but Colorado only averaged 1.5 less possessions than Wake last year.
He has NBA experience which can help lure recruits (can’t recruit at AFA and Colorado not a sexy pick/destination for basketball players). He needs to be given a fair chance to prove himself, especially with top talent.
Of course, if all of our recruits bounce elsewhere in a week, I may change my mind for a while (but I will give him a fair shot. This means more than one game/one season). Anyone that says they are no longer a Deacs fan because of this is an idiot.
Bzdelik is our coach (seemingly) and needs to be supported in the short run.
Wellman specifically pointed out that postseason problems were the reason for Dino’s firing.
In 2005-2006 Bzdelik lost to a terrible Wyoming team in the first round of the Mountain West tournament as a 1 seed with a 24-6 record
In 2006-2007 Bzdelik lost to a terrible Wyoming team in the first round of the MWC tournament as a 1 seed with a 23-8 record.
0-1 in the NCAAs as well
Bzdelik is likely the only hire who keeps the assistants in play
Bringing on Bzdelik will likely mean keeping the remaining staff and hopefully be the bridge to retaining the recruiting class. If that all works out, I could see this move being a positive one.
The only downside to what would otherwise be a neutral to slightly improved scenario is the loss of the recruits.
Got to go to work before April 14th to save the day.
I don't really see him as an upgrade
Part of Dino’s problem was that he normally had one or two perimeter shooters, and maybe one fairly reliable from the three. Ari and Harris will improve that as they mature and would have under Dino. The offense would have naturally improved.
The fact that Bzdelik couldn’t recruit at Colorado is worrying. No it doesn’t have a good basketball tradition nor does Colorado produce many good basketball players. At the same time it’s still a BCS school and more than that has a reputation as a party school. It’s like a lesser version of Florida in some respects. He’ll be able to recruit at a higher level in NC but with Dino gone AND one of the top-recruiting assistants he will need some major help. Yes Wake is ACC and has some basketball tradition but it isn’t enough to recruit top prospects.
If he comes over I do hope he somehow manages to develop big men unlike Dino, and that he keeps the defense.
I’m with Jake on this one, as I am on most things. We tend to think the same when it comes to basketball.
While I like his NBA experience, it is a different game than college basketball. He never had to recruit in the NBA. Yes, he is a good evaluator of talent, but can he go out and sign that talented player? That remains to be seen. He just had to draft players in the league, he never had to go out and recruit them. I’ve always been a big believer that talent wins and that in game coaching is overrated. We need someone who can get out and get us the talent to win games. We saw that Dino Gaudio was very capable of doing that, as made evident by his recent class which was ranked in the top 10 by almost all recruiting services.
His post season success also leaves a lot to be desired. Ron Wellman cited Dino Gaudio’s lack of postseason success as the reason for his termination. That’s fine, but don’t replace him with someone who has even less success than his predecessor.
I do believe that Coach Bzdelik can be good from an X’s and O’s perspective, but to win in the ACC he is going to need to bring in the talent to compete. I don’t care if you’re John Wooden, if the other team has a noticeable advantage in talent then that team will win. The two best coaches in the country are coaching right down I-40. Can he battle against them and win a recruiting war? That remains to be seen. I wish him nothing but the best and hope he can elevate our program, but I have my concerns.
by Robert Reinhard on Apr 12, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
Who had more talent?
Wake Forest or Cleveland State??
One of the more ignorant statements I have ever read that talent means everything and coaching means nothing.
That’s a one game scenario. I’m not saying that talent is everything, but it’s the vast majority of it. You really can’t point to teams that have won national championships and say they haven’t had a large amount of talent. Duke had a great amount of talent, as did UNC, Kansas, Florida twice, UNC again, UConn, Syracuse, Maryland, Duke again, and Michigan St. I could go on and on.
Yes, those teams had very good head coaches, but they also had fantastic players, and you could field a pretty good NBA team with the players from these teams.
by Robert Reinhard on Apr 12, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay
You can also find many examples of the opposite. Did Butler have more talent than Syracuse or K State? Then why is everyone clamoring for Brad Stevens to be the next coach if in – game coaching is ‘overrated’?
There is a short list of coaches who are not seen as good coaches who have been in the FF in the past 10 years: John Brady, Kelvin Sampson, Mike Davis, Paul Hewitt. That’s it.
There’s a reasons Michigan State is deadly in the tournament: The in-game coaching of Izzo. The way he works matchups, controls the style of the game, makes subs, calls timeouts, etc. Coaching is a huge part of in game.
He also loses in the second round of this year’s tournament if his PLAYER does not hit a 3-point shot to beat Maryland. You can draw up the best plays in the world, but the players don’t make the shots…
by Robert Reinhard on Apr 12, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He also knew
Not to call a timeout. He was about to, did not panic and let the game play out. How many coaches would have panicked there and called a TO?
How did they do in the next round? We don’t want to be a team that sneaks up on good teams and beats one every now and then. Wake needs to be a team that is knocking on the Final Four’s door. That rarely happens without a lot of talent.
Summarizing his point into your second sentence is not fair and completely wrong.
Not a summary
“I’ve always been a big believer that talent wins and that in game coaching is overrated.”
He said it, not me.
It’s not saying the same thing.
Nothing means that the players would be just as good without a coach.
Overrated means that it is blown out of proportion how much of an effect coaching can have on the players.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
Fair enough
You want to interpret it like that, fine. However, hopefully you can agree that talent is not all that you need to win in NCAA. Coaches and their schemes matter. That’s why Wake struggled last year down the stretch…Dino could not come up with a gameplan to win games when it mattered and the other coaches could.
If you think that talent is the main reason why college teams win you are deluded. The in game coaching matters a ton.
Contrary to what I perceive by a number of commentators recently, the issue isn’t a “like/dislike” with Coach Bzdelik. It’s whether he is the best fit for Wake Forest RIGHT NOW. Dino was fired for failing to improve the team from November to March (As Denny Crum used to say “December is for Christmas, March is for Championships”) and for failing to meet post-season expectations. That isn’t what LOWF Nation said, it’s what the University said. Hence, expectations were/are very high that the replacement coach would have a resume that had shown this experience and be a logical next step to a Final 4. With Coach Bzdelik, we only have a public record to judge him on, a record that does not seem to be the next step. He has about 10 years of college head coaching experience and 1 NCAA appearance. He has a bunch of NBA “experience”? Has he built programs into “respectable.” I guess, but he doesn’t have the consistency of success or experience that you would think would be a prerequisite to this position or meet the expectations as defined in the post-Dino firing comments, especially for someone in the “business” for nearly 30 years. When you compare him to other types of candidates, his experiences on paper are less than compelling, especially versus the next generation coaches — Chris Mack at X, Brad Stevens at Butler or Scott Drew at Baylor — younger head coaches who have excelled early in their careers and would appear ready for the ACC’s Big Show and seem to be more natural fits for Wake’s environment (small, private, strong academic, personable universities that have had recent or extended successes in hoops). They each understand the importance of excellent hoops, excellent academics, excellent character. Bdzelik has experience at AFA which helps mold student-athlete-military persons. That is important, and he won there. But, what is his track record with recruiting and staying anywhere long enough to see the fruits of his efforts? Where’s the development of highly talented recruits to win championships and be top NBA prospects? Where’s the excitement in his programs? As merely an example of passion, when Scott Drew took over as head coach in Waco, he firmly believed and said that program could make the Final 4 (and think about the mess that program was in when he arrived). He almost succeeded this year ,but for a horrible Duke charge call. He has shown drive and passion. Stevens is a common guy, the players, fans, alumni love him. Chris Mack exudes energy (he was that way as a player when I watched him dive for loose balls at E’Ville and X and now prowling the sidelines). This isn’t to lobby for any of the 3 in particular, but to point out what we have seen is needed in the ACC. You have to have the heart of a lion and the self-confidence necessary to go up against K and Roy and Gary night in and night out because you are fighting their teams, their personas, their pleading to the refs, their student bodies and their intensity. Where is the record of this from Coach Bzdelik? These are the legitimate questions that the LOWF Nation wants to know.
Joshua also mentions Tubby. I firmly believe Tubby Smith would not be a good fit, but at least he has a college basketball pedigree that would at least be marketable to alums/supporters/friends/W-S community. Also to Mr. Reinhard, talent is very important but it doesn’t always win in the Dance or Kansas and Kentucky and Memphis would have won a couple championships recently. Butler has some decent talent but beat Michigan State and others and almost beat a supposedly more talented Duke team. There was some pretty good coaching going on.
This isn’t a contest of wills of LOWF Nation v. the athletic department over who is the right candidate, this is merely the fanbase, a passionate, intelligent, involved fanbase, asking the same questions that we know Mr. Wellman is asking but desiring to be convinced that this is the right decision. Coach Bzdelik is not an immediate top-o-mind candidate for this position (or frankly has his name come rolling out at Rutgers, DePaul (the city he’s from), or Oregon). However, before the ink is dry on a contract, intense debate from passionate fans is perfectly logical and necessary. In fact, the atheltic department should welcome the dialogue as it raises the very roadmap of issues the PR team needs to address in writing the releases, preparing for the presser and preparing the Alumni Association and Development groups when doing the road shows. The dialogue on this website has generally stayed with facts (and opinions based on facts — see wakejake’s response above). Those facts have so far led to a general lack of enthusiasm for and/or a questioning of this candidate as being a leading candidate less than a few days into the process. It is wholly understandable.
by askmikeandscott on Apr 12, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions
Other blog post
my thoughts are at http://accmania.wordpress.com/
From my early days listening to Bill Roth depict a dazzling Michael Vick dance around the field to glory until now, it has been more than a pleasure to be a Hokie fan. Since 1998, there has only been one game played in Lane Stadium I did not attend (stupid chicken pox), and I dread the day where I am not fortunate enough to be in the stands week after week.
It's a great day to be a Hokie!
I like your take, Josh. Many of us feel that way.
by Robert Reinhard on Apr 12, 2010 6:25 PM EDT reply actions
I voted yes, but not with much confidence. At Air Force Academy and Colorado he hasn’t shown us too much. His record at Air Force Academy is quite flashy, but once you delve into it you realize that he shouldn’t get too much credit. He took a program built by Mooney and did well in the regular season, but not well in the post season. The team also fell apart down the stretch his second year, costing them the NCAA bid that probably looked like a sure thing when they were 17-1. On the positive side, Colorado fans do seem to be quite unhappy to see him leave. To me this indicates that they felt he was on the verge of something. I am planning on snooping around the interwebz to see if I can find the game that they almost upset Kansas. Every indication is that he’s a great Xs and Os coach, but there’s more to it than that.
Here's the thing
This is what bothers me the most about this hire. Wellman is bringing in a coach who has only successfully run a hybrid Princeton offense. The Princeton offense is designed to do one thing — prevent your team from being embarrassed with a 25 point loss. It designed for slow, limited athletic players to compete with fast, highly athletic teams. You will not get blown out but you will not blow out anyone either. You might occasionally even shock a team but you won’t be in a position to be a dominant team.
Is this what we want for our program? I respected what Sendek did at NC State but there is a ceiling to what that type of offense can do and we saw it. It guarantees mediocrity. And with this hire, this is what Wellman is telling Wake fans that they should expect and that they deserve. He could have kept Dino and gotten at least that.
I get slammed by most of my friends when I say this but I would rather lose and score 90 then win and score 40. And least I am entertained by the high scoring loss. The brand of basketball that Air Force played was painful. Only enjoyable to so-called purists.
Recruiting obviously will be a problem. He already doesn’t like to do it and he’s putting in place a system that is difficult to recruit to. It will be a rare NBA player that comes from Wake if he is the coach for more then a couple of years.
wow
You have a limited view of the Princeton offense. It is based on high post action and back cuts, ball screens and guards posting up.
Also, to say that you would rather lose and score 90 than win??? Wow….
yep
I get that alot when I say that — my point is that I don’t want to see a team that passes the ball around the perimeter for 30 seconds before hoisting a 3 (ala Sendek – or Virginia this year). That’s boring and there is a ceiling to what those types of teams can do.
I’ve seen plenty of the Princeton offense going back to high school. It’s dull and the only people that want to play it are those that are forced to.
Though after reading the article from the Colorado assistant today, I may have jumped the gun on what type of offense he wants to run.
If you did some research
And looked at the stats instead of making an off the cuff statement, you would realize that Bzdelik’s Princeton offense is not all that much of a slowdown offense. Colorado averaged only 1.5 less possessions than Wake last year. They were 157th in terms of 3 pointers/field goal attempts (32.8%).
That is what I am not liking about the reaction of our fanbase. They have limited info on Bzdelik and the type of offense he is running. They hear Princeton offense and have a negative connotation with it.
Bzdelik deserves a chance to prove himself and implement his system at Wake. if it does not work, that is one thing. But to call it a doomed failure before he gets here is unfair.
Here's the thing
Wake’s offense was horrible last year in regards to scoring, so comparing Colorado’s system which is even slower is not a compliment.
What I don’t like about alot fans reaction is the ‘rally around the flag’ – whatever Wake does is right. I just disagree here. Everyone has the right to disagree.
There is a reason there is a negative connotation to the Princeton offense — no one wins big with it.
Bzdelik will certainly have his chance to prove himself — no one on a message board can compromise that. I’m not calling it doomed. I’m calling it a regression to mediocrity. I’m sure will be able to finish between 4-9 in the ACC every year with Bzdelik. And that’s the reason that I don’t like this hire. It creates a ceiling for what the program can do and that is an absolute break from what the program was under Prosser. And I think that is what I am fighting against. Prosser gave the program hope to compete at the elite of college basketball. And getting rid of Dino, and hiring Bzdelik ends the Prosser era and in my opinion any hope that we can compete at that high level.
Guys,
As a CU student I urge you not to underestimate coach BZ. When he took over our basketball was a wasteland. It was shameful. Seriously my freshman year before he came here we took bets on who would win more games, the football team or the BBall team (our football team went 2-10 that year). It was that bad. But he brought, and I hate to say this because they made stupid t shirts about it, he brought buzz about Basketball back to Boulder. Though his record may not indicate it, he made an irrelevant school in basketball relevant. This year alone we beat a ranked Baylor team t, took KU to overtime, and brought K state to the wire. He recruited 2 sure fire NBA players in his three years, which in Boulder is a bonanza. So though he may not look like the sexy pick, dude can coach, and dude will bring you guys success. Keep in mind i’m also pissed he’s leaving, so for me to defend him, he must have done something right;)
Go Buffs!
"It's like an owl without a graduation cap; Heartbreaking!!" -Tracy Jordan
As much as it sounds like it, we’re not trying to bash on Bzdelik, the circumstances have just been pretty bad. Most people expected a pretty big upgrade since we just fired a coach who was 61-31 over the past 3 years and has made the last 2 NCAA tourneys. Perhaps it wasn’t realistic for us to expect a huge name like Tubby, Stevens, or Drew, but it was the level we thought we were going to at least pursue.
I’m sure Bzdelik will be fine here and it’s great to here positive things about him. The past week has just been very stressful to say the least about this whole thing.
Thanks for dropping by though, any and all comments are always appreciated!
Brownell to Clemson?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5080574
Having watched a lot of Wright State the past couple years, Tiger fans will like the D. Offensively, they had a bunch of good shooters, but no post players, typical of the guard-centri Horizon League (Butler’s Howard was their center and was in frequent foul trouble all year; Detroit had the best center). He was effective in conference and his teams played hard.
by askmikeandscott on Apr 13, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions
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